Emergence - remembering our ancestors’ teachings and how to carry forward their original instructions for each generation.

Welcome to Chahta Chatter!

Our ancestors have used our stories for generations upon generations for instructions on how to live a good way on the earth; they also have encoded ways in which we can heal.  

Emergence is a the creation story for the Choctaws of how they came into this world that we are currently living in. This story gives us the opportunity to learn about ancestral Choctaw teachings and how to carry forward these original instructions for each generation and within each environment we inhabit. Importantly, we must remember to value one another, our inner relationships with more than human kin, and our environment.

Meet our host:

Dr. Michelle Johnson-Jennings is a Choctaw tribal member, clinical health psychologist, and a Full Professor at the University of Washington’s Schools of Social Work and Public Health. As co-Executive Director of IWRI, she leads groundbreaking research in land-based healing, Indigenous health frameworks, and culturally relevant interventions. Her work spans continents and empowers communities through storytelling and holistic health practices.

Andrea Gonzalez is a proud Mexican-American with Indigenous ancestry who is passionate about ancestral connection, spirituality, and well-being. She is the Program Coordinator at University of Washington’s Indigenous Wellness Research Institute. Andrea has a Bachelors of Science in Biomedical Sciences, and spent her undergrad in a microbiology lab researching bacteria that play an important role in chronic periodontis. She is multilingual and passionate about expanding her consciousness as a citizen of the world.
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Producers: Andrea Gonzalez, Dr.Michelle Johnson-Jennings, and Felipe Contreras.
Mixed By: Felipe Contreras

Special thanks to Brad Joe for the support and contribution to the music of the show.

This podcast is made possible through collaboration with IWRI, the University of Washington’s School of Social Work, and HOLLO’s initiatives. At HOLLO we integrate storytelling and land-based healing to address chronic health issues, preserve cultural heritage, and promote community-led wellness.

Transcript

Halito. Welcome to Choctaw Chatter. Hello, I'm Dr Michelle Johnson-Jennings. I'm a clinical health psychologist and a Choctaw woman who was born and raised in Oklahoma. My families include the Johnsons, scotts, crowders, roberts, just to name a few, and I'm born from a long line of really strong and powerful women, many of whom descend from Albaoma, or the place where we gather the sacred medicines, and today they call it Alabama. Not sure how they got that, but there it is. Joining me on this journey we call Chalk Talk Chatter is Andrea Gonzalez, my esteemed student and co-host.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Hello everyone. My name is Andrea Gonzalez and I'm a mestiza with indigenous ancestry from Mexico. I'm also a biological and chemical sciences student. I'm excited to learn from you, Dr MJJ, and I wanted to ask what is Chalk Chatter and why should listeners tune in Great?

Speaker 1: 1:09

question. So this is a show where we re-story the traditional stories gifted from our ancestors and our elders and we share these original teachings for living in a good way, and we do so for generations to come. We also want to learn if these stories affect how others view their health and well-being. So I've been telling these stories to my kids for decades, as they were told to me, and the show really arose when I realized the stories we've been sharing across families and generations often don't get shared beyond our small communities or even small families A lot of times. Traditional stories are often told in a proper way, in a proper space often don't get shared beyond our small communities or even small families. A lot of times traditional stories are often told in a proper way, in a proper space, following proper protocol, but in today's hectic, disconnected world we often don't have these opportunities to just sit and listen to elders and others as we used to do. So today we hope to share with you one in particular story and we really want to share these stories from our hearts. These stories are not exact replicas of even my elders or ancestors, but they're original stories as I've heard them and they're told inside our families and as I've told to my children. So for our audience, I just ask you not share these stories as your own or strictly traditional Choctaw stories, because they've been adapted by myself and we've also altered them to share in this podcast in particular. So today, I'd like to tell you the story of emergence. Now, this story speaks of the Choctaws as they first came into this world, though we have stories that go back to falling from the sky, and this one is about us entering to this world that we are currently living in Now. A long time ago, the Choctaws lived in a world of darkness. They had their sacred corn gifted to them from Ahoyoychispa, or the woman who never dies. They had their community. They had their mounds with their ancestors' bones lovingly placed. But they began experiencing some negative events and during this time, you know, they had no light. Lots of unhappiness grew, lots of discontent and bickering within the community, and they weren't quite sure what they should do to help this. Now, one day, falah, the raven came flying through. Falah, falah, falah, it cried. Come with me. I found a place of light and beauty. You're gonna love it, you, chukta. Come on, come on, falah, falah, falah.

Speaker 1: 3:57

Everyone looked about and the seven grandmothers called council. They met and they discussed Should the Choctaw follow Fala? One, pocni, said I don't know, the people have been rather depressed. Another one said, yeah, they're bickering all the time. It's so annoying. And then another one said you know, I don't know, maybe we're not getting the right vitamins, maybe vitamin D, I don't know. And so they sat and they talked it through and they decided to enter a sacred space of fasting, of holo, of love, women's love. And as they prayed and spoke to the spirits, they received their answer. And they gathered together the people and they said we believe that we should follow Falah. This world has been wonderful. We've been gifted our sacred Tantyar corn, we know how to heal, we know how to be, but yet we aren't. So we need to find something else, and maybe this is our answer.

Speaker 1: 4:58

As they left, they decided they would follow Falah. They gathered their ancestral bones, they placed the elders and the children first in line, the adults in the back to make sure they could take care of anyone who fell behind. And as they marched and marched, following Falah, for many, many moons, they didn't see these little shokoni, these little ants that were following them. Oh, the shoshi knew that the chakta needed their sacred tanshi to take with them. They knew the chakta could only be well if they had that sacred corn seed, but yet the chakta had forgotten it. So, the shokkoni, they got together, these littleokshi, and they said well, should we help the chakta? And they had decided yes. So they marched right alongside, unseen, unrealized, but dedicated to helping these chakta.

Speaker 1: 5:53

Well, after many moons had passed, and hunger and unhappiness, the chakta persevered with hope for the future generations. As they moved through, they arrived at the location where the ground opens up. Today we would call that a wormhole. You know, there are places, even today, all over the world that hold these sacred sites that are marked with a distinct form and symbol. And as they went through, falah went first and said oh you, chakta, you're just going to love it. Hurry me, follow me.

Speaker 1: 6:22

And so the first elder went through, followed by the next, allah child behind, and then the Choctaws behind, the moms, the aunties, the uncles started getting worried. They said we don't really know where we're going, do we? We don't know if this land is good or bad. I don't even know about a land that has a fire in the sky and light. What does that even mean? There could be someone, this could be a trap.

Speaker 1: 6:46

And so they started bickering and talking. And as they sat discussing this again and arguing with each other, they started getting a little anxious and pushing, just a little bit Hushed to leave. The great spirit saw this and said oh, those Choctaw, look at them, just bickering, not even being grateful for this opportunity. Look at them and what they're doing. And so as they go through and the grandmothers go through and the children go through, those Choctaw start pushing and shoving more.

Speaker 1: 7:11

And as they're shoving and bickering with each other whether or not this is a good idea they push one of those poor elders down and hushly said oh, those chakta, look at them doing this, forgetting their ways. I can't believe this. And then they pushed a little bit more and the children got pushed down as they were going through. Then the adults are yelling tshpa, tshpa, hurry I want to see if my children are okay, hurry, tshpa. And they start pushing and shoving more and more. And as they pushed, they stepped upon the shakani. Those poor little shakani. Stepped upon the shakani. Those poor little shakani who had marched with them the entire way, faithfully carrying those little seeds upon their back, got crushed and with this, hashtali grew so upset, said to those chakta that step on a shakani, they become one. And with that the line got very short. The chakta made it to the other world that we are in today with the little Chukani following behind, and to this day I tell my children never step on your relatives. What an impactful story.

Speaker 2: 8:43

I really love the visual of the wormhole opening up and the ground opening. So when the Choctaws got impatient and stepped on the Chacanee, the Great Spirit got upset and said to everyone who steps on one of the ants, we'll become one. And then the line into the wormhole got shorter. And I was wondering why. Why did the line get shorter? Did the impatient choctaws actually turn into ants and what other meanings could this have?

Speaker 1: 9:15

yeah, good question. So we believe that they did turn into ants, that, as they were impatient and stepping and not paying attention, that they turned into them. And this is exactly why I've told my kids never step on our relatives, because we actually believe that they're related to us. There are impatient ancestors who didn't show respect to others as they should have, especially when those little ants were helping us carry our sacred corn right, and so therefore they were gifting to us, and so then we have sacred responsibilities to them right To protect them, to look out for them, and when we don't do that, we're out of balance. And that imbalance garnered the attention of the Great Spirit right or should I say discussed right From Hushdali, and make sure that we would then pay attention because we knew for sure our relatives were also right there with us and that we would try to restore balance with our relatives that were just those little aunts, but also maintain it right as our kin.

Speaker 1: 10:19

You know this is a story that I was told, but there are so many messages in our stories.

Speaker 1: 10:25

In fact, my Spokane, my grandmother would talk about how she grew up in a community in Oklahoma that only spoke Choctaw and all the kids would come out at night and gather around the fire and they would tell these stories right, and as they told them she said, all of those stories have the teachings that we need to be well today.

Speaker 1: 10:45

And so when I tell these stories, when I've told them to my kids, when I tell them to other people, I really think about what are those meanings for health and well-being. I mean, especially for me as a psychologist. Right, I'm really trained in Western ways that don't necessarily align within our community beliefs. For instance, when I walk into an integrated primary care setting where I did my residency and training, I would meet people and the first thing that I would ask would be about what their ancestors have cursed them with right, and for instance, do they give you the risk of diabetes or mental health disorders, et cetera? And I would ask about that instead of first asking what have your ancestors gifted to you to be well today? And I think that's a very different framework from our indigenous views of health and well-being and Western views.

Speaker 2: 11:38

Yeah, you know what? I have also seen that as well, where western practices and ideas of health are placed on everyone, and it wasn't until more recently that I realized how much our ancestral memories and ancestral ways of being impact everyone's health differently. And what's interesting to me is the question you asked of how your ancestors can curse you, and I personally can think of ways in which things that were passed down, whether it be generational traumas or struggles with mental health but what's interesting too, is that I also think of my ancestors as blessing me and protecting me, so I'm curious in what ways we can apply and think about ways our ancestors have cursed us.

Speaker 1: 12:36

Yes, I think, through Western medicine, we're taught to think of it in those terms that our ancestors have done something to us. They've increased our risks, they've brought something up in our lives that wouldn't have been there if they hadn't been our ancestor and, again, I think that's really a Western way of looking at it that we've had to adapt to at some level, instead of looking at that historical trauma that you mentioned right, things that were outside of their control, that interrupted their love for us. It really is a different framing than, I believe, what our ancestors used to do. You know everything from positive child rearing to focusing on the gifts of our ancestors, seventh generation, back as well as forward, and I think my working as a healthcare provider, I did often see that we would ask about all of these risks that they've gifted, instead of saying, okay, what are the things that are sacred? How can you operate within this world with their gifts of love, with their gifts of resilience, with their gifts of strength that can help you today? How can you cope today based on that?

Speaker 1: 13:43

As we think about the story of emergence too, you know we were gifted all of these stories that we can access today, but, in particular, a lot of them focus on how we should live in a good way on Mother Earth, our sacred mother, and I think, as we think about these stories, and how we even replicated the Mount Naniwaya when we finally reached our resting spot in the east for Choctaw people. We followed Choctaw and Chukka, and those who wanted to keep going went with Chukka and became Chukkasas and those who wanted to stay became Choctas. And I was always told we rebuilt our mound at this point to represent our emergence into the world and our sacredness upon the lands our emergence into the world and our sacredness upon the lands, and more so to also remember our stories and our ancestral teachings that connect and tie us to the land.

Speaker 2: 14:31

I really love how connected Choctaw culture and stories are to their history and their ancestors and like how much knowledge can be passed on through that. I think that's so beautiful and so sacred. And going back also to what you're saying about how we can be on Mother Earth and how to operate and navigate in a healthy way, I think those are questions I find myself asking a lot. The other day I was on a drive and I saw the ocean in the distance. It was almost like an awakening and I was really just reminded that we're living on earth. Like the ocean was calling me to wake up, like I had been on autopilot and suddenly seeing the waves just rush something over me and I was flooded with all these questions. Could you give us an example of a teaching that tells us how we should be on Mother Earth?

Speaker 1: 15:34

I appreciate you sharing that story as well. I hear that often when we go outside the land from women that we do health interventions, land-based healing with, and oftentimes we frame that as a type of spiritual experience, right Recognizing that you're part of a greater whole. And through a lot of our Choctaw stories even the story I just told they center on that. For at least a component of the story that, for instance, you know, the Choctaws didn't pay attention to those poor little ants who are carrying our sacred corn medicines with them. And if we don't care for even the smallest of the small, you know, we cannot be well and flourish, because even they are our kin that we have to respect, we have to nurture, take care of, and that goes for the plants and the foods that surround us on Mother Earth. We are part of all that's around us and we have sacred responsibilities that come with that and we do believe we have to hold those elements within this world as sacred and give them proper respect. Tanchi or corn, it's sacred, it can heal us.

Speaker 1: 16:43

But even before we had diabetes, type 2, which is pretty rampant in many communities nowadays we had stories and teachings that if we ate too much our teeth would fall out or we would become ill. So if we misuse our sacred gifts, then harm will come our way. We have to maintain that balance with our sacred gifts, whether it be food, plants, you know, our other relative animal kins that are around us, the air, the sky, the waters. We really are part of that system and within that system we have to maintain that balance to be well and to live in a good way.

Speaker 1: 17:24

Some would say we also have poor nutrition today because we don't honor and just our traditional foods as intended.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Some say it's because we overeat or, you know, we try to obtain our food too quickly, packaged food, and eat it on the go, Instead of stopping and thinking about what we're eating and honoring those stories, that food, that medicine, the way it was taken, the way it was cooked. And you know, if we don't do that, even eat in a good way, it can come back and harm us and form a diabetes or cardiovascular disease. So many of our stories have that common theme of just maintaining our sacred balance and relationships. Now you know we think about the story and in this story in particular, that Choctaw had some imbalance when they got to the portal to merge into this world. They were bickering, they were fighting, they were debating whether or not they should act as a group for the collective good. And then they entered this world as, some being ants and some being Choctaw, who recognized they must care for the ants' family and through this we learn the importance of respect, relationships and ongoing responsibilities.

Speaker 2: 18:52

I was just going to say when you were reiterating how the Choctaw were stepping into this new world, into the wormhole, and how much they struggled with that as well, with the bickering and the fighting and debating. I think of how they must have felt in that moment to step into the wormhole and into a new world. That must have not been easy. And when I think about balance and being intentional, for example with food, I definitely fall sometimes into the trap of not being as present when I'm eating or not putting as much intention into my food.

Speaker 2: 19:30

Like you said, eating you know very convenient processed foods, or being on my phone while I'm eating, or trying to finish a school assignment while I'm eating, and outside of just food, and many relationships with medicine, with others, with our family and our relatives. Like you were saying, the sacred balance seems to be so central to all of it, and I think this might apply too and I'm curious what you think of this with equilibrium within our body as well, within our mind and our spirit, and how all those things are important for good health. So I'm wondering you as a psychologist, how do you think, if at all, western science is catching up to this, to the idea of equilibrium and balance.

Speaker 1: 20:21

I would say even within the last few years, western science has made great strides in catching up with some of our ancestral wisdom. For instance, if you're stressed, we know you're more likely to catch a disease. There have been many new studies and research opportunities that people have taken advantage of to study that when your body's out of balance, it leaves you vulnerable and unable to adequately protect you against these different diseases. Right, your immunity goes down. If you're stressed, you're also more likely to get diabetes type 2. So physical and emotional stress has been shown through research to impact our immune systems and our blood glucose levels. You know, a little stress is often okay right, it can be motivating and helpful, but chronic stressors can make us more vulnerable and more likely to feel unwell. As Western science is catching up, luckily we're getting more of this knowledge to know exactly what's helpful, for instance, mindfulness or meditation or exercise things that reduce our stress. And we also are learning about how our culture is protective. For instance, even knowing your language can reduce your diabetes type 2 risk. Or spending time outside in nature, we know, reduces your risk for disease but improves your immunity Less likely to even catch COVID if you were outside 20 minutes a day. All of these things counteract the effects of stress and they also go back to the teachings of our ancestors, because they already knew this and they've tried to share this with the future generations through our stories, and I think that's why you know we need to talk to each other in a good way. We need to talk with one another about how we can operate in this world as good relatives, not just to other humans, right, but to the animals, to the plants, to the skies, to the waters, to the earth. And I think in the story as we talk about the push and the shoving of the Choctaws in my family, I know that if there's bickering going on, like, say, I have a spat with my brother, I call my sister Did you hear about what you know our brother said and did? And she'll probably say, oh yeah, it's so upsetting. And I'll say oh yeah, yeah. And then she'll call my brother and then call me back and say, hey, did you hear that he was having a hard day today? Or maybe this happened to him? What do you think is going on with him? Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I heard about that. And then she may call my brother, call me back and say hey, did you hear that he was having a really rough day that day and you said something that triggered x, y and z for him? And then she'd probably call my auntie, who may call me, and say, oh, your brother's been going through a lot of problems lately. You know he might need a little bit of extra support. And you know I probably respond along the lines of oh, okay, okay, and then I usually will then call my brother and just say, oh, I'm sorry, I was so hard on you and I understand things are going on, but we'll get along okay and we'll figure it out together.

Speaker 1: 23:31

But this whole scenario is about the family working collectively to insert balance, even in times of conflict or disagreement, and we don't do this alone. Again, different from my psychology Western training of saying I feel this way, when you do X, y and Z, I need you to do this. But, as I started understanding these cultural practices that we have, it's more about this collective coming together to restore balance in our families and that's really important, because it's that support that we need from each other. It's those reflections that we need. We also need the feedback on our own behavior and how, what we may have done, and we operate within these collective dynamics. It enlightens me to realize, especially during my training even that group therapy is wonderful. Operating within groups to solve issues is really important as well, and that's how we can get along and restore balance in a good way.

Speaker 2: 24:28

Dr MJJ, when you talk about family relationships and having disagreements among your siblings, I feel like it's something I can really deeply relate to. In the past few months I feel like my relationship with my brother has totally transformed and it's thanks to these conversations that I have with my family and with my close circle that helped me shift my perspective. Sometimes my brother does things that upset me or things that I don't agree with, and it can be really hard to cope and to manage those feelings. I used to try to deal with it on my own and just pretend it didn't happen, or reach out to him and try to navigate a conversation where it is slightly confrontational but trying to be productive, and we both end up just triggering each other.

Speaker 2: 25:25

What I recently came to realize is that when we do have a disagreement and I reach out to my mom about it and talk it through with her, I get a huge sense of clarity. I move from initially judging and resenting my brother to actually empathizing and accepting him. I remember that he is the closest person to me I have on this earth and that I truly do love him for who he is as my brother. Going back to what we were saying earlier about group therapy and trying to solve problems in a family setting that's culturally appropriate. How does this relate to an even bigger picture, from our family, to the whole collective, to our ancestors and Mother Earth at?

Speaker 1: 26:15

large? Oh, I think that's a great question. You know a lot of tribal communities refer to the Earth as Mother Earth, I think, situating her as our first mother and therefore our responsibilities to her. But I think it's also we think about it's bi-directional um in our interactions with her, which differs a little bit from western views of how we should operate upon the earth. So sometimes, especially in western science, we'll read about what the earth can give to us, what we can take from the earth, how we can get nourishment from going outside by a tree, but there's not a lot of that. What we have to do to give back right mounds, you know, across and leaving those mounds for us to signify our relationship to the earth, to this world and our responsibilities to Mother Earth. I think that's really critical for us to remember that all of us share Mother Earth as our first mother. Whether you're indigenous or from this nation or that nation, we're all here together and I appreciate your ocean story as well and you see in the ocean and realizing you're, you know you're on this land, you know others still talk about looking up at the stars and realizing I'm not only on the earth but I'm part of a greater universe and feeling that connection is really important because as we feel interconnected, then we can make healthy decisions on what we need to do to fulfill our sacred responsibilities.

Speaker 1: 27:49

And For each person that may be different. Some would say we don't extract resources from Mother Earth without consent and not in a good way. Because she is our mother, we need to be respectful at all times. Others would say that because she takes care of us, we also need to practice reciprocity to keep that circle connected and all of our relationships healthy. And again, that would be down to those little ants that crawl around right. What are we doing for them and how does each decision we make today impact them? So, impact others, other humans, other animals, impact the air, impact the water. Those are things that are really important to think through because we are a greater collective, that are really important to think through because we are a greater collective.

Speaker 1: 28:37

We can't just say I'm doing this by myself, I'm going to recycle, for instance, and make sure that I have an electric car, or I'm going to do this for Mother Earth and that's it right. It's not about that. It's talking to our siblings, right, directly. You can say that, but you're not going to get the whole picture or make a bigger impact, to restore balance, but instead we need to talk to each other. We need to come together with each other and see what we can do. We really uphold our elders and our cultures. They're sacred. Our children are very sacred. They have such vast knowledge that we need to be consulting with them, asking them their opinions, asking them what we might need to do.

Speaker 1: 29:15

I think we think about this story that I told just a bit ago the grandmothers, who are sacred in their wisdom. In their age, they went to a state of fasting, which we call holochi, and that's literally translated to be creating love, and not just romantic love, right, but the love that crosses generations. Past love and not just romantic love, right, but the love that crosses generations past, present and future. And this is the same as women's menstrual blood that they hold. Right, because it's past, present and future connections. And so if we think about this holo and the need to create love so that we can make a decision about moving or make a decision about what to do next, that's really critical, because we act out of love, and I do believe that, as we think about this story and the acts of love for the future generations, to honor the ancestors before us and to keep the present healthy and well, that that love can be very guiding and how we can operate in a good way with others.

Speaker 1: 30:15

And I think, as we think about that love being enduring, it's more than just the romantic love which will peak. So when you have romantic love you have phenylethylamine coursing through your system and you feel this intense love for the other person. It's irrational, it's overwhelming. And then about four years those hormones start to calm down and then you might have what we call oxytocin, which is that love that might come for the other person. And usually people will be together four years and then they might break up around that time if they haven't established that deep love. But the interesting thing is, is we feel that love as soon as we give birth, right, our oxytocin soars like.

Speaker 1: 30:56

We have that love for our children and we also believe that in Honitapa Ishiki, mother Earth holds that love for us too. You know, our ancestors knew that. They knew this enduring love is so powerful that it would help guide us in our decision-making and upon our paths. We are all truly sacred. We're born as sacred beings without love and we're born with our ancestors' love that courses through across the generations, and so that means we can all be wonderful vessels for healing, and healing for ourselves, so that we can also heal the future generations and, in the process, become good ancestors, because every one of us today is an ancestor in the making. So that doesn't mean like if you don't have kids, you're not going to be an ancestor again, right, like each generation that's born are the ancestors of the collective group for the future generations. And as we think about becoming really good ancestors, every decision we make today influences those future groups. So what are we going to do today to help build a better world so that the future generations can become good ancestors? And when we think about that ancestral responsibility to Mother Earth and to others, you know it causes us just to pause and to try to think about that responsibility, to make an impact, to make a change. That's important, but to be sure that we do so out of love.

Speaker 1: 32:43

I appreciate you taking time out to listen to the story and to Andrea and I. As we talk through some of the points and some of the messages that we received from the story today, we have a few questions we would like to ask you to consider as you go about your day. One is what are some of your ancestral teachings and how can you live in a good way with your community today? Again, this means all kin, non-human included, and especially Mother Earth, as we were discussing. And then, what's one thing that you would like to carry forward for the next generation?

Speaker 2: 33:25

Dr MJJ, I really want to express my gratitude because you opened up space for me to think about my relationships in a different light.

Speaker 1: 33:34

Yokoge Andrea, I really appreciate you and you being here with me today for this story and the questions that you posed. I also appreciate our listeners tuning in today, taking some time to listen to a very old story, to learn and to reflect and perhaps to share some of the teachings within their own families or communities. I really wish that as we carry this story forward, carry the wisdom of our ancestors forward, that we can search our hearts to see where we can get in touch with that holo, with that love from the past, present and future generations, and how that can guide us today to first know that we've always been loved, that love is so much strength and a source of strength and power for us, and to know that we can pass that love on to the future generations and we can help steward and take our responsibilities on, as long as we connect with each other and connect with the non-human elements and relatives around us as well, and I think in doing so we can fulfill our ancestors' dreams.

Speaker 3: 35:16

Thank you for listening to Choctaw Chatter. Choctaw Chatter is a wellness podcast brought to you by the University of Washington's Indigenous Wellness Research Institute's HOLO division. At HOLO, we integrate storytelling and land-based healing to address chronic health issues, preserve cultural heritage and promote community-led wellness. These stories have been modified to protect some of the more sacred instructions that are not for public use. We please request you do not share these stories as your own, because they have been altered. Today's episode was produced by Andrea Gonzalez and Felipe Contreras, hosted by Dr Michelle Johnson Jennings and Andrea Gonzalez. Our executive producer is Dr Michelle Johnson Jennings. We are looking for your support. Whether you're an organization storyteller or community leader, we invite you to partner with us to share your stories. You can support us by sharing our episodes, following us or even finding out ways we could collaborate in the future. Please email us at landbasehealing at uwedu. See you next time as we explore more stories here on Choctaw Chatter pattern.